Good day. My name is Aaron and I will be your conference operator for today. At this time, I would like to welcome everyone to the 2024 Sabra fourth quarter earnings call. All lines have been placed on mute to prevent any background noise. After the speaker's remarks, there will be a question and answer session. If you would like to ask a question during this time, simply press star followed by the number one on your telephone keypad. If you would like to withdraw your question, press star followed by the number one again. With that, I would like to now turn the call over to Lucas Hartwich, EVP Finance. Mr. Hartwich, please go ahead.

Thank you and good morning. Before we begin, I want to remind you that we will be making forward-looking statements in our comments and in response to your questions concerning our expectations regarding our future financial position and results of operations, including our earnings guidance for 2025 and our expectations regarding our tenants and operators and our expectations regarding our acquisition, disposition, and investment plans. These forward-looking statements are based on management's current expectations and are subject to risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ materially, including the risks listed in our Form 10-K for the year ended December 31st, 2024, as well as in our earnings press release included as Exhibit 99.1 to the Form 8-K we furnished at the SEC yesterday. We undertake no obligation to update our forward-looking statements to reflect subsequent events or circumstances, and you should not assume later in the quarter that the comments we make today are still valid. In addition, references will be made during this call to non-GAAP financial results. Investors are encouraged to review these non-GAAP financial measures, as well as the explanation and reconciliation of these measures to the comparable GAAP results included on the financials page of the Investor section of our website at sabahealth.com. Our Form 10-K, earnings release, and supplement can also be accessed in the Investor section of our website. And with that, let me turn the call over to Rick Natras, CEO, President, and Chair of Sabra Healthcare REIT. Thanks, Lucas. Appreciate it. Thanks, everybody,

for joining the call. We appreciate it. Let me start by sending out love and prayers to the Bebas family. Their bodies will return to Israel today. May the memories of Tafir and Aria and Shiri be a blessing. Thanks for allowing me that. So moving on to Sabra, first I want to comment on the promotions that we announced this week for cara lucas and anna we're really blessed to have the three of them as part of our team they're fantastic and they exemplify everything that's good and important about sabra and um also exemplifies the depth of our team and just really appreciate them and look forward to work with them in the years ahead moving on to the performance for the quarter cyber delivered what's been a success a succession of a number of great quarters in a row our senior housing and skilled portfolio continue to strengthen workforce availability does remain a challenge to the sector but our tenants have been able to implement strategies to mitigate those challenges and labor has stabilized our shop same store occupancy was up 80 basis points sequentially with margins up 20 basis points Our shop cash NOI was up 17.9% for the quarter. Our senior housing triple net coverage stayed steady at 1.36. Our skilled occupancy was up 60 basis points sequentially, with skilled NICs up 30 basis points. Our EBITDA coverage hit an all-time high at 2.09. Our skilled margins are now higher than we've seen in years. Our top 10 had another strong quarter. For 2025, we'll continue to build upon the strategy we successfully executed in 2024, as evidenced by our 7% year-over-year normalized AFFO growth. We would anticipate a higher volume of deals in 2025. The increased volume we started to see before year-end has accelerated since, with more opportunities than we've seen in quite a long time. The opportunities are primarily sharp, but we are seeing more skilled opportunities. The fact that we had nothing new to announce this particular quarter shouldn't reflect on what we think will get done this year. We fully anticipate to have a busy year and a year that will have higher volumes than we had last year. Let me move on to the regulatory and political environment. The political environment's potential impact on our business has been an overhang, but I'd like to make a couple of points. First, the threat of Medicaid cuts. We take that very seriously. While any actions that may be taken are unpredictable, there are natural guardrails in place, and I want to go through some of those guardrails. As it pertains specifically to Medicaid cuts, Congress has been historically protective of the elderly population, particularly those vulnerable, institutionalized folks. The Medicaid budget, inclusive of matching funds, is critical to the governors of all states, both red and blue. And in fact, the red states have been the greater recipients of Medicare, of Medicaid access, the expansion of Medicaid access in recent years. So in addition to the bipartisan support that we've always had in Congress, the governors of the states, again, both red and blue will be united to protect the elderly in our facilities and the Medicaid budgets that are so critical to them. We have a robust lobbying effort that we expect will be successful, and a couple of other things, I think, to point out in terms of how much in the beginning of the process we're in. The House budget has $880 billion of unspecified Medicaid cuts. The Senate version has no Medicaid cuts and overturns the staffing mandate. So you've got opposite sides of the spectrum. and you have no specificity on where those Medicaid cuts are. So a very, very long way to go. Finally, as I noted earlier, I think the final guardrail for us is the strength of our portfolio. Having margins, rent coverage, shop margins, where they are with organic growth still to come in both those segments, I think puts us in a very good position to withstand anything that may happen going forward. And with that, I will turn the poll over to Talia.

Thank you, Rick. Sabra's managed senior housing portfolio had another solid quarter. The total managed portfolio, including non-stabilized communities and joint venture assets at share, had sequential revenue growth of 3.5%, cash NOI growth of 5.4%, with margin expansion of 50 basis points. These statistics demonstrate sequential improvement in operating results that reflect the continued recovery in Sabra's senior housing portfolio. In the fourth quarter, we added one property to Sabra's managed portfolio. We see opportunities for external growth setting up well alongside internal growth. Sabra's same-store managed senior housing portfolio, including joint venture assets at share, continued its strong performance this quarter. The key numbers are revenue for the quarter grew 7.4% year-over-year, with our Canadian communities growing revenue by 10.6% in the same period. Both of these results are consistent with the growth statistics we reported last quarter. Fourth quarter occupancy in our same-store portfolio grew by 2.3% year-over-year. Notably, our domestic portfolio occupancy grew 2.8% during that period, while our Canadian portfolio grew 1.2% in the same period. Red poor in the fourth quarter of 2024 continued to rise with an increase of 4.5% year over year, while ex-pore rose a near 0.6% for the same period. Total expenses for the same store portfolio rose 3.4% in the fourth quarter on a year-over-year basis. Insurance costs have the largest percentage increase among all expenses, but represent less than 3% of total expenses. Labor costs, which represent more than 50% of expenses, grew 2.1% in the quarter on a year-over-year basis. Cash NOI for the quarter grew 17.9% year-over-year, just above last quarter's results. In our U.S. communities, cash NOI grew 15.2% on a year-over-year basis, while in our Canadian communities, cash NOI for the quarter increased 26.9% over the same period, benefiting from the continuous strong performance of our joint venture properties. Overall, we expect to see revenue growth continue to outpace expense growth as it has in recent quarters, resulting in ongoing growth in cash NOI. Cash NOI margins should continue to expand across the portfolio as the senior housing industry builds revenue by balancing occupancy and rate, and expenses, especially labor costs, remain stable. With this as a backdrop, we are seeing significant transaction volume in the senior housing space. Virtually all of the deals are structured to transact as managed rather than leased properties. Our cost of capital now allows us to pursue these opportunities, which can generally be described as newer, nearly stabilized senior housing communities that offer care to residents. Our net lease stabilized senior housing portfolio also continues to do well with strong rent coverage, reflecting the underlying operational recovery. And with that, I will turn the call over to Mike Costa, Sabra's Chief Financial Officer.

Thanks, Talia. For the fourth quarter of 2024, we recognized normalized FFO per share of $0.35 and normalized AFO per share of $0.36. Normalized AFO totaled $86.9 million this quarter, which is in line with the third quarter. I would like to highlight a few key components of this quarter's earnings. Cash rental income for our triple net portfolio totaled $90 million for the quarter, which was down $1.8 million due to timing of cash basis tenant rents and the impact of asset Cash NLI from our managed senior housing portfolio totaled $24.1 million for the quarter compared to $22.9 million last quarter. This increase was driven primarily by continued sequential same-store growth as well as the impact of a 92-unit property acquired at the beginning of the fourth quarter. Recurring cash G&A was $10.2 million this quarter and slightly better than the $10.4 million per quarter run rate we've provided on the last several calls. Normalized FO per share and normalized AFO per share were $1.39 and $1.44 respectively for the full year, which represents 7% year-over-year growth. This growth is a result of steady performance improvements in our managed senior housing portfolio, continued stability in our triple net portfolio, and disciplined capital allocation, three factors that we expect to contribute to further growth in 2025 as illustrated in our full year 2025 guidance. Our full year 2025 guidance on a diluted per share basis is as follows. Net income, $0.67 to $0.70. FFO, $1.42 to $1.45. Normalized FFO, $1.43 to $1.46. AFFO, $1.47 to $1.50. And normalized FFO, $1.48 to $1.51. At the midpoint, we expect both normalized FFO per share and normalized AFO per share to increase approximately 4% over 2024. It is important to note that our guidance does not assume any 2025 investment, disposition, or capital markets activity. There are a few other important assumptions in our guidance that I would like to point out. Cash NOI growth in our triple net portfolio is expected to be low single digit, in line with contractual escalators. Additionally, our guidance assumes no additional tenants are placed on cash basis for revenue recognition. Cash NOI growth for our same-store managed senior housing portfolio is expected to be in the low to mid-teens. As the portfolio gets closer to full recovery, this growth rate may decelerate, and as a result, our guidance assumes the growth rate in the first half of the year will be higher than the growth rate in the second half of the year. General and administrative expenses is expected to be approximately $50 million and includes $11 million of stock-based compensation expense. The weighted average share count assumed in our guidance is approximately 240 million and 241 million shares for normalized FFO and normalized AFFO, respectively, and is in line with our fourth quarter weighted average share count after adjusting for the timing of ATM share issuances during the quarter. Now, briefly turning to the balance sheet. Our net debt to adjusted EBITDA ratio was 5.27 times as of December 31, 2024, a decrease of 0.03 times from September 30, 2024, and a decrease of nearly half a turn from December 31, 2023. This improvement in our leverage is driven primarily by the continued NOI growth in our managed senior housing portfolio, accretive capital recycling, and prudent use of our ATM to fund growth. As of December 31st, 2024, we are in compliance with all of our debt covenants and have ample liquidity of $980 million, consisting of unrestricted cash and cash equivalents of $60.5 million, available borrowings under our revolving credit facility of $893.4 million, and $26.1 million related to shares outstanding under forward sales agreements under our ATM program. As of December 31st, 2024, we also had $382.8 million available under the ATM program. Finally, on February 3rd, 2025, Sober's board directors declared a quarterly cash dividend of 30 cents per share of common stock. The dividend will be paid on February 28th, 2025 to common stockholders of record as of the close of business on February 14, 2025. The dividend is adequately covered and represents a payout of 83% of our fourth quarter normalized AFFO per share. And with that, we'll open up the lines for QA. Thank you. Ladies and

gentlemen, once again, if you would like to ask a question today, remember it's hitting star plus the number one on your telephone keypad. Our first question for today comes from the line of feral granite with bank of america your line is live hi thank you so much my first question

is in regards to the occupancy for your shop portfolio just looking ahead to 2025 what are your thoughts of the pacing of the occupancy either an acceleration or deceleration just

generally in the senior housing space you know it's an interesting question because what we're seeing is operators managing balancing out pushing rate versus occupancy because they can't not everyone can do both at the same time um and so that's so it's it's very hard for me to to sit here and handicap um which is you know how much occupancy is going to increase versus a focus on revenue increases by driving REV4. We're seeing very strong, we have seen very strong increases in our Canadian portfolio, which is now seem to be stable, getting ramping down in terms of the rate of growth. But there's still plenty of room in our domestic portfolio. And I I think that certainly in IL, it will continue to get pushed. On the occupancy side in AL, I think there's definitely continued, there'll be continued push, but a desire also to raise REV poor at the same time.

And Farrell, the only other thing I would add is, so the way I would look at it is, it's not going to be a deceleration. It's just a function of how much it's going to accelerate, to Talia's point.

Great. Thank you for that. And also, I know you made some comments on the opportunity set that you're seeing in 25, an increase in it, both the mix of SHOP and the SNFs. I was curious if, are you seeing any impacts in pricing when it's coming to SNFs specifically due to the current environment?

It's interesting you say that. We were just at the ECAP conference a week, 10 days ago. I would say that the transaction market in skilled nursing is robust right now. There is a lot of money chasing deals and opportunities still. Whether lenders and the health care REITs are able to continue to participate in that right now in an accretive fashion is, you know, is the big challenge.

is how to figure that out. So it's the strategic buyers that are chasing the money. That's what the issue is from a competitive perspective. So they're valuing these assets not just based on the nursing facility, but on the revenue it generates for all their assorted businesses. So they're operating entities, so they're able to pay up. So as Holly said, it's been pretty frothy for those guys. Okay, thank you so much.

Thank you for your questions. Our next question comes from the line of John Kilachowski with Wells Fargo. Your line is live. Thank you. Good afternoon. Maybe just to follow up that last

question, Rick, just from your opening remarks, it sounds like you feel a lot more confident in the acquisition pipeline, you know, this year versus last year, at least you expect an acceleration. You know, I'm curious what you're seeing or what's changed quarter over quarter or from, you know, the past couple of months until now that makes you feel confident in your ability to accelerate, you know, these deals, given, like you said, it's pretty frothy for some of

your competition to bid up on deals. So I'll make a couple of comments and turn it over to Talia. First, we're not doing the kinds of deals that some of our competitors are doing. There's been a lot of loan volume, and we're just, as we've talked about in quarters past, and I think you know, John, we're just not interested in pursuing that unless there's a very specific reason that's tied to one of our operators. So if you take all that volume away, it changes the picture for everybody. But just to remind everyone, last year, there were a couple of things. One, acquisition opportunities were just starting to pick up over the course of the year, particularly on the shop side, and our cost of capital was improving over the course of the year. So this year, we enter into it in a much different place with a much higher deal volume, and our cost of capital allows us to do the deals that we would like to do.

I mean, how is this? I'm clearing at least 10 confidentiality agreements a week, and we're only in mid-February. There's just a lot of deals coming into the market. And there's a few sources for them, for the most part. One source is a lot of private equity firms that have assets that have either are at funds that are end of life or beyond. Similar to other kinds of investors, there are funds that have just decided, The price is good enough now. Let's just get out. So we're seeing quite a bit of that because there's been enough of a recovery to recoup and just exit. We're also starting to see green shoots on some interesting refinancing, recapitalization opportunities because three months ago, you recall, four months ago, everyone expected interest rates to be declining. And actually what's happened is that has reversed and interest rates have gone up in the 10 years at about a four and a half now. So there's opportunities to refinance and not do much on the cash in refi to refinance out banks that have loans. that sort of disappeared. And now we're seeing more refis looking for press equity, mezzanine debt, et cetera. So there's sort of a new stream of opportunities coming in. But there's the recovery, but sort of you really pull back, zoom out here for a sec. There's been enough of recovery that people that have wanted to exit can finally hit a number that feels okay, and they can exit as opposed to continue to carry, and they're really willing to do that, and that's really the break point that we've hit over the last few months. Okay, got it. I appreciate the detailed

answer, and then just one more from me on the shop guide. Earlier in the opening remarks, there was a comment made about, you know, the back half, maybe experiencing some modest deceleration in that growth, just given it gets harder, you know, the comp year over year. how do we pair that with the fact that you know you in this business you know there should be greater operating leverage as you hit those sort of higher occupancy marks and you know i think you're at 85.8 and kind of once you reach those higher 80 marks we've always heard in this business you know you really start to see the operating leverage of the business shine that maybe should allow for more growth so could you help us sort of pair those two comments

together? Yeah, I think, you know, it's us trying to be a little bit conservative in those assumptions. I think that's a big component of it. I'm not going to hide that fact. But also, I mean, last year, we saw quite a bit of occupancy growth, you know, year over year. You know, we're sitting at about 85.5 as of the fourth quarter. You know, if you think that this thing stabilizes in the upper 80s, you know, low 90s, you know, you're starting to get to a point where where those occupancy gains aren't gonna be as easy to come by versus where they were a year or two ago, right? So it's just us trying to be conservative on those assumptions and that growth. Still acknowledging the fact, as you pointed out, and as Talia pointed out, that the operating leverage kicking in is something that not only are we seeing right now, but we expect to see even more so as occupancy continues to get closer to that, call it 90% level. So that's effectively it. I mean, I don't think there's much more to look into it besides that.

Your point is correct, John.

Yeah, that's why I noted that Expor has increased 0.6%, which is essentially, it's essentially flat, which goes to operating leverage.

Okay, great. Thank you. Thank you for your questions. Our next question is from the line of Nick Joseph with Citi Research. Your line is live.

Hey there, it's Michael Griffin here with Nick. Rick, I think in your opening remarks you talked a little bit about some strategies that your operators have implemented to, you know, effectively mitigate costs. Can you maybe expand on that a bit, you know, what some of these initiatives could be? And, you know, is there the opportunity within operators in your portfolio to share best practices just given, you know, cost mitigation is going to remain to be a focus?

I think it's a couple of things. One, in terms of recruiting, they've embraced digital marketing for recruiting in very many cases, which has been really helpful, getting just more people into the door to be considered. The other is I think there's been a complete revamping of the onboarding processes with all of our operators. So the onboarding process has been lengthened. There typically are mentors that are assigned to new employees. And I think that's really helped get some traction with longevity. So I think those are the two main things, obviously, we saw in 2022, a rebasing of wages. And so that's kind of normalized since then. And so, you know, we've always competed with the service sector, but I think the rebasing of the wages during COVID has made our operators a more attractive destination as opposed to other service kinds of positions. So it's really those things.

Yeah, that's a helpful context there. Appreciate it. And then maybe just going back to the acquisition pipeline, Talia, you talked a bit about looking at more stabilized product that had a care component. Should we read into that, that the pipeline is tilted maybe more toward AL relative to IL within the managed portfolio? And, you know, what kind of yields or IRRs are you underwriting to for prospective transactions?

um so i'd say that we're seeing um i think i think the that assets with care components are by definition doing better now um the recovery um has really affected them now because they're able to charge rate that's part of as opposed to necessarily drive to maximum occupancy. Of course, they have a higher cost structure. But there's been a lot of those built. Oftentimes, they're IL-AL memory care, by the way. So that is, in fact, what we're seeing mostly. We are seeing some standalone IL, but not that much. And I'm sorry, what was the second part of the question? Just from yields or IRR is what you're underwriting, too? So we're still seeing deals that that going in might be is seven to seven and a half, but stabilize it above that. And that's that's that's still happening.

And I would also just reiterate, really, strategically, we are focused on increasing our shop exposure, but within our shop exposure, to your point and your question, you should see, over time, our AL increase and our IL decrease, which should help our growth numbers as well.

Great. That's it for me. Thanks for the time. Thank you.

Our next question is from the line of Alan Werschmidt with KeyBank Capital Markets. Your line is live.

Hey, everybody. It's Austin Werschmidt here. Hey, Austin. Going back to your comment about kind of full recovery in the shop portfolio, my sense was that was an occupancy comment. I guess, can you kind of share where margins and NOI stack up relative to occupancy and what kind of the the full recovery and future upside entails um for those metrics as well

well i think i went through where we are today in my um uh comments i think i think there's visibility on on getting somewhere close to where we were pre-pandemic here now in senior housing particularly particularly in those assets where you can really drive rate which is based on location, et cetera, um, uh, vintage, things like that. I mean, are there any regions or

operators specifically that have already surpassed, I guess, the full recovery point and would give you even more confidence about, you know, the balance of the portfolio, being able to grow, you know, again, beyond, you know, what you're deeming to be kind of full recovery?

yeah i think we we definitely have operators both in um our senior housing and our skill portfolio that has surpassed where they were uh pre-pandemic and um and so we look to do more deals with them but our portfolio has gotten so strong and a lot of that um happened with some of the steps that we took during the pandemic um that all of our operators are on that path some are just further ahead than others. But we're at the point right now where we don't have stragglers that we had pre-pandemic. And it's also why we've been as selective as we've been in terms of the deals that we've done, both in terms of market operator and the age of the assets that we're buying. So we think with everything that we did last year, and actually we had a lot of volume actually in 2022 as well, we've really enhanced the quality of the portfolio from a market asset and

operator perspective. And then just last one, you know, Rick, you mentioned kind of you expect to do more investments this year rather than last year. I mean, how significant of a year-over-year increase could we see given all the reasons that Talia highlighted around, you know, what's going

on in private equity and with, you know, higher interest rates today? Before the pandemic, If you exclude some of the really big moves that we made, we typically did several hundred million a year that we'd like to get. I'm not going to predict that we'll exactly be there this year, but that's certainly a goal for us is to get back to the level of investments that we did on a routine basis prior to the pandemic.

That's all for me.

Thank you for your questions. Our next question comes from the line of Vikram Malhotra with Mizuho. Your line is live.

Hey, this is Georgie on from Vikram. Just on the external growth pipeline, can you just talk about what does the competition look like for stabilized assets in the senior housing?

Mostly the healthcare REITs for the nicer assets, the institutional quality assets, I'd say. Below that kind of quality level, I think you've probably got some high net worth. We're not seeing private equity in the states right now, although there are starting to be rumblings of their coming back. It's hard to be a levered buyer right now. There's just not enough spread between cost of debt and cap rate. That's helpful. I just have one more on the

shop portfolio. Can you just provide more color on what January rent bubs were compared to last year?

I don't have the exact numbers for the portfolio with me, but it's sort of in the four to five percent range is what we're seeing in our larger operators and they're achieving those

yeah and the other thing to point out too is that rent bumps aren't all done on january right it varies it varies operator operator right some do them on an anniversary date of the

right of the lease some do them in january it varies mike's right great thank you thank you

for your questions. Our next question comes from the line of Juan Sanabria with BMO Capital

Markets. Your line is live. Hi. Thanks for the time. Just hoping you could talk a little bit about the infrastructure, the platform. Guidance seems to call for kind of flat GNA. So just curious how you guys are investing in the system that it seems to be a strength of the reach to have the platforms and the capital to invest behind the business. So presumably that the moat will get wider as that happens over time. And I'm just curious on your latest initiatives

around being a leader in shop. Yeah, I mean, look, we've been in shop for a while now, and we established the infrastructure several years ago when we started our foray into that. So from a systems perspective, from a technology perspective, from a personnel perspective, those are pretty well established to the point where adding additional scale in there, you know, any additional costs are going to be really incremental. It's not anything major to take on, you know, larger portfolios or more operators, whatever it may be. And that's where probably the biggest impact, I would say, from a G&A perspective would be on the shop side. To the extent there's any triple net, you know, we could absorb that without adding any headcount, you know, realistically. So does that answer your question, Juan?

Yeah, I would just add, Juan, that from a systems perspective, we're continually upgrading and improving our system. And so that the technology that we have in place continues to get better, allows us to provide different levels of support to our operators to interact differently, to have more visibility, to have more predictability as we start building artificial intelligence capabilities into our systems.

um you said the key word there i'm just curious on the on the 25 you talked about acquisitions ramping up but curious if there's any dispositions you had some sales in the fourth quarter which we didn't necessarily model so just curious uh how we should be thinking about sales and dispositions

for 25. yes the dispositions that we had in the quarter sort of ordinary course of business and I think what we talked about the last several quarters, that we had one SNF portfolio that's still in the process of being sold. That's about $50 million. Other than that, what we've said is that everything else is ordinary course of business. An ordinary course of business for us historically has been sort of $50 to $100 million plus a year in disposition. So there was nothing kind of unusual about it. And you can tell by the number of facilities and what was a relatively small proceed number that they weren't producing very much.

Thank you.

Yep. Thank you for your questions. Our next question is from the line of Richard Anderson with Wedbush. Your line is live.

Thanks. Good morning out there. So I want to talk about the.

So, Rich, I just want to first say to you that a few quarters ago, three quarters ago i believe you said can you foresee the day when your coverage is over two times

so that's all the questions i have no just kidding so on the on the on the pipeline i want to talk about uh the accretive dilutive math um on that like you look at your trading around 12 times forward a ffo that's like an eight eight ish type of a ffo yield i don't know if you think about it that way but do you would you say you're break even in the in the in the first year of investment and grow from there or i'm just curious how you think about that from an accretive dilution standpoint yeah i mean based on where our

stock is at right now as well as where we could issue debt out or you know using any kind of leverage somewhere in the you know low to mid sevens on a going in yield is is break even or slightly accretive. You know, we also mean a blend, you mean a blend, you mean a blended low to mid seven? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The blend of equity at today's prices, you know, debt, right. We think we could go in with initial yield to somewhere, you know, low, low to mid sevens and be break even a slightly accretive. But like Talia mentioned earlier, there's also opportunities that we're looking at where it's around that level, but there is also some growth baked into it so it's not only just looking at that initial yield but looking at the long-term growth profile and how that compares to um you know the expectations um built into our cost of capital

okay so michael when if you're due 500 million this coming year would it be safe to say half of that is funded with equity or more or less i you know the numbers i've been throwing out usually

is like 60 40 equity debt just to kind of keep our leverage where it's at or around five times

okay and then uh rick back to you um big picture you mentioned you know the spread between the house and the senate in terms of medicaid you know unspecified you know who knows exactly what is actually in those the that line of thinking from the house perspective but if it's so wide like that i mean isn't there a concern that at least there'll be some of it i mean to find a a middle ground between those two governing bodies. I'm just curious how we get through this and avoid any kind of disruption at all.

So fair question. So and this is probably not going to sound great because the numbers are so enormous. If the number is over a trillion, it creates a lot of concern regardless of how the Medicaid cuts are giving out. So it gets better as big as the $880 billion in sounds, but since you're starting it with zero at the Senate and 880 at the House, that number is going to come down. Hopefully it goes away, particularly when the governors start getting involved in the fight, but it's going to come down. So given how strong the portfolio's performance is, you know, with rent coverage and the margins, and it's continuing to improve and still got room to grow ahead of it i think that will be okay um even if there's some kind of a hit so um

does that answer your question yeah it does and and how would you how would you parlay that into medicare you know different forces at work but just curious yeah it's different forces at work

i think look everything's being tested right now at the courts um you know they're they can't just do this if they want to do it. They may try to, but they can't just do it. There's statutory issues and Congress has to be involved. So I actually think that I have less concerns about Medicare than I do about some kind of hit on Medicaid, even though I'm more optimistic and pessimistic about medicaid or certainly the overall impact of it okay and uh much respect as well as i do i mean you're all over this kind of stuff uh politically like i am i mean we're living in a time that's completely unpredictable right so um so you know i i just tend to fall back on the bipartisan support the lobbying efforts the fact that this statutory you've got states involved as well as both chambers of congress it's just not going to be that simple to hurt people who are most dependent

upon government aid fair enough and just want to say much respect to your opening comments on this call by the way thanks everybody thank you thank you thank you our next question is from

the line of Alex Fajan with Baird Equity Research. Your line is live. Hello, and thanks for taking

my question. I'll echo what Rich said, you know, respect to those opening comments, and to your point, the world's unpredictable in so many different facets. But, you know, my question is, do you expect specialty and behavior coverage to improve as the year progresses? I think it's just

going to kind of meander around where it is. A lot of the fluctuations are the behavioral hospitals we have, which it's just a really dynamic business. The coverage is fantastic. So there's no sort of concerning trends. But yeah, I think it's just going to kind of meander around where it is. I don't think it's going to be consequential. Got it. And kind of changing back, but what is

the current size of the cash basis tenant base? And then did the dispositions in the quarter

include tenants on cash basis? So in terms of the cash basis tenant base, I like to quantify that in, I put it in two buckets. There's really, the ones that we're really focused on are the ones that are not paying us full rent and paying us random amounts, you know, month to month, quarter to quarter. And that component of the cash basis tenant pool is, you know, a couple percentage points, you know, I don't know, but it's less than 5% of our NOI. And regarding your question on some of the sales that we had in the quarter, yes, that was related to some of our cash basis tenants. All right. Thank you. Thank you. Our next question

is from the line of Michael Stroyak with Green Street. Your line is live.

Thanks, and good morning. Maybe one on the transaction market. Is there any recurring theme on potential deals that the company has looked at and then ultimately passed on, particularly within shop? Is it also just a function of price, like what you're seeing with NIF transactions or maybe something else that leads to not closing on these deals?

I think there are a couple of characteristics that we're focused on. One is the quality of the asset itself, of the real estate, and that we look at vintage of the asset as well. So that's one thing. We look at the market, and we look at, frankly, long-term viability of the asset. Those are critical factors. The shop, what we're seeing now generally is high-quality assets, and it's an opportunity, as Rick described earlier, to improve our portfolio over time to add really high-quality assets.

I guess on those high-quality assets that you're bidding on, is it just a function of different cap rates that you're ascribing versus where the deals ultimately trade at?

I think the band of cap rates is fairly narrow. Oftentimes, the seller or the operator have an ability to sway who the buyer will be. And so relationships come to bear here. We're also seeing off-market deals where relationships are definitely part of the

discussion got it okay um and then maybe one just on uh sniff coverage levels uh the magnitude of the sniff coverage increase during the quarter seemed fairly outsized relative to the actual occupancy gains we saw can you can you just help us understand what uh drove such a healthy step

up in coverages yeah i think it's where occupancy kicked in it it was a big jump in terms of the impact on operating leverage. Really kind of as simple as that, Lucas. Yeah, that's the Medicaid increases that have kicked in and then the market basket, the market basket as well. Oh, no, not the market. I'm sorry. But the Medicaid increases that kicked in in July and August really had the biggest impact. So it's this next quarter since we report a quarter arrears that you'll also see impact from the Medicare market basket. Got it. That's helpful. Thank you.

Thank you. Our next question is from the line of Aaron Hecht with JMP Securities.

Hey, guys. Your line is live. Go ahead. Thank you. I was just looking at your loan book. It looks like it's around $400 million. It sounded like that's not an area you want to be focused on, and the maturity date ranges are pretty wide. Is there anything coming up soon in terms of maturities? And do you expect those to convert to ownership or do you just recycle out of those as they come due?

So there's nothing imminent in that loan pool. I think individually there are some that we'd like to refine, redeploy the capital and others where we have an opportunity to buy, in which case we'll consider that when that window opens. There's nothing really actionable there at this moment.

Okay. Yeah, I was really looking at the three mortgage loans, and it looks like the first maturity date's in 26, and that's the big bucket. Is there a big maturity in 26, or is that more back-end weighted? There's a maturity at the end of 26.

So, it's essentially two years away, just under two years away.

Any scope of size on that?

It's the majority. Yeah, it's about $300 million. It's the majority of that bucket.

CRCA loan. Okay. So, I mean, that discussion is going to be that they want to take us out, which would be fine, and they want to have a conversation about flipping it into a triple net. You know, we might have that conversation as well. So, that one just remains to be seen. we're happy with how things are going there the loans performing um so we'll just sort of play

this goes along okay thanks rick appreciate that yeah thank you for your question ladies and

gentlemen uh if you do have a question remember it's star followed by the number one on your touchtone keypad we have our next question from the line of omotayo yokusanya with deutsche bank

your line is life. Yes, good afternoon everyone. Great comments at the beginning of the call to share with you. Speaking of this topic of Medicare and Medicaid, what are your thoughts around if they are eventually to get cut? Are they kind of more inactive shift program versus kind of classic Medicare, Medicaid, or on the skilled nursing side, does that all kind of still depend on this trillion-dollar number you're talking about? How do we kind of think about that probability?

Say it one more time, Ty. Are you breaking up a little bit?

Sure. So I was talking about, again, the potential Medicare and Medicaid cuts that we've been discussing on the call. And just speaking through that, you know, in terms of, you know, the potential amount, is it possible in any way that all the cuts just kind of boil down more towards, like, the CHIP program or, you know, than anything else versus, you know, cuts to Medicare, Medicaid that would impact scale nursing? Like, how did we kind of handicap the probability of something like that happening? Yeah, so I think that's a fair

question and um i think the answer is yes there are other programs out there like chips medicaid expansion generally that probably get targeted first um some of the home base and community programs get targeted first as well so um yeah i think that's a fair that's a fair statement which goes to some of why we feel at least comfortable that even if something does happen, it won't be anything that sort of creates real damage to the space or the portfolio. And the other thing I didn't mention in my opening remarks is depending on what the final number is and what sectors get hit, you may see sectors kind of uniting together in their lobbying efforts. There may be some common cause here as well so i'm not even sure that you'll see lobbying efforts that are completely independent of each other um so um both in the sectors from organizations like aarp this there's going to be a lot of activity here around any potential cuts that affect the indigent and the elderly

That's helpful. One other one. I know it's still pretty early, but any thoughts at this point about how Robert Kennedy may want to run CMS and what the implications are for the industry?

I have zero idea how to predict anything about this dude, but ask Elon. Maybe he's got more insight than I do.

I appreciate it.

thank you for your questions we have no further questions at this time so i'd like to turn the

call back over to mr matros thanks everybody for your time today appreciate the support as always and we'll look forward to seeing many of you at the city conference have a good day thank you and

thank you and ladies and gentlemen that will end sabra's 2024 fourth quarter earnings call Have a great rest of your day.